What is Climate Investment? In Conversation with an ESG Analyst in Asset Management

Meet Divya Deepankar CEnv, an ESG Analyst at Jupiter Asset Management. Divya gained Chartered Environmentalist registration via Institute of  Environmental Management and Assessment (IEMA) in 2020.

In this episode of EnvCast, we discuss climate investment with Divya Deepankar CEnv, she discusses what it is like working in asset management, how she got started in Civil Engineering becoming an environmental professional and outlines what climate investment is and how other professionals can make a difference using their finances.

Whether you're looking to gain industry insights or advance your professional development, Divya's episode and others from the EnvCast series are a must-watch for anyone interested in environmental management and sustainability. Tune in now to learn more!

About IEMA
IEMA are the worldwide alliance of environment and sustainability professionals. They are an independent network of more than 18,280 people in over 100 countries, working together to make our organisations and new developments and infrastructure future-proof. Belonging to IEMA gives members the knowledge, connections, recognition, support and opportunities needed to lead collective change, with IEMA’s global sustainability standards as the benchmark. By mobilising their expertise, IEMA continues to challenge norms, influence governments, drive new kinds of enterprise, inspire communities and show how to achieve measurable change on a global scale. IEMA operate across the sustainability spectrum.

Professional registration:

Registered status as a Chartered Environmentalist (CEnv), Registered Environmental Practitioner (REnvP) or Registered Environmental Technician (REnvTech) are available. To find out more about our registrations visit: https://socenv.org.uk/professional-registration/

Check out our other platforms:

YouTube: Society for the Environment //
Website: socenv.org.uk // LinkedIn: society-for-the-environment 

Transcript

Transcript

00:00:09 Speaker 1

Hello and welcome to the latest EnvCast episode. EnvCast is a Society for the Environment Podcast, bringing you environmental professionals in conversation each month. Each episode is designed to provide insight into the life of registered environmental professionals featuring experts from across a wide range of sectors and disciplines, we explore what they do, why they do it, how they got to where they are now and their future ambitions.

00:00:35 Speaker 1

Each guest has verified their environmental credentials by achieving Chartered Environmentalist, Registered Environmental Practitioner, or Registered Environmental Technician registration. To learn more about the Society for the Environment or our environmental registrations, please visit socenv.org.uk.

00:00:55 Speaker 1

Enjoy the episode. 

00:00:57 Speaker 1

Hello, I'm Phil from the Society of Environment and welcome to this month's EnvCast episode as promised in the last episode, today I'm joined by an expert in climate finance working in as an ESG analyst for Jupiter Asset Management. And I'm going to be quite open about my aim for today, which is to find out what climate and sustainable finance is for a start.

00:01:19 Speaker 1

And how it can support our collective efforts towards a more sustainable future, but I should probably continue with the introduction first. In 2020, Divya Deepankar gained her Chartered Environmentalist registration via their full membership of the Institute of Environmental Management and Assessment, or IEMA for short. Divya, thank you very, very much for joining us on EnvCast today.

00:01:42 Speaker 2

Very glad to be here.

00:01:43 Speaker 1

It's very nice to have you as always on EnvCast to start proceedings, I'm going to hand over to our guest to give us a flavour of what they currently do in their job so if it's OK I'm going to hand straight over to you.

00:01:55 Speaker 2

Thanks, Phil. So let me just start by giving a very, very brief introduction. You know, once again, hi, I'm Divya Deepankar. I currently work as an ESG Analyst within you know, the asset management industry at Jupiter Asset Management.

00:02:12 Speaker 2

That said, my role is very focused on, you know, the E, which is the environmental pillar of the generalist ESG analyst specialisation. And I'm unofficially, you know, one could say you know, very focused on the climate risk and the climate integration within the asset management.

00:02:33 Speaker 2

You know whether the asset management sector, but more specifically working with our investment teams in house and by background, I'm actually a civil engineer and you know, I actually used to work in the construction and the infrastructure sector for about 8 years and I've now been in the financial services sector for roughly 2 years coming up to it very soon. So yeah, I'm sure there'll be lots to talk about that transition at some point.

00:03:01 Speaker 1

I feel we might go into that at some detail at some point. That's good to know. I did see that on your experience, on your LinkedIn profile, I must admit, as far as my research got, but it was certainly of interest. So, your degree was in civil engineering, is that right?

00:03:14 Speaker 2

That's great, yeah.

00:03:15 Speaker 1

OK, now so you're working climate investment. So, let's start from the very top, shall we? Climate and investment or climate and finance or sustainability and finance? What what's the connection? How do those two connect?

00:03:27 Speaker 2

In my view, and I'm sure different climate finance professionals will give you very not very, but they will give you different versions of what it means to them and their role. But to me personally, what that means is how do we strategically drive capital allocation so that we can manage the challenges that are going to come and that are already coming from the shift in temperature, which is what we call this climate change.

00:03:57 Speaker 1

OK, that's very useful introduction. Thank you very much for that. How do you decide where needs or where is suitable for the investment to go.

00:04:09 Speaker 2

I'll take a step back and limit it to what I do because you know that that's a very, very big question, which is how do you do it right? And different financial institutions, depending on whether they sit in the private sector or the public sector or in which specific segment of the financial services industry would have slightly different answers.

00:04:28 Speaker 2

Do it so, so taking a step back, you know I work with Jupiter Asset Management, which is an institutional asset management staff and what that means is, you know, just again for the audience on a day-to-day basis is that we are managing the financial assets. And by that I mean the cash or the money of our clients and we're investing them to grow long term value now at Jupiter, and similarly at, you know, some asset management firms, we would have a suite of financial products and these financial products are called investment portfolios and there's, you know, we're an active management firm and what that means is that there is a real human, you know, it's not all just automated and coded. There are real specialist investment managers who are constructing these portfolios and then managing it for their respective clients. And any portfolio consists of different asset classes and asset classes are different faults where you could invest your money, and these could be equities. These could be debt. These could be cash or cash equivalents. These could be commodities, but essentially you know, let's stick with the term asset classes are what are constructed into a portfolio. And our investment experts.

00:05:53 Speaker 2

Put the clients’ money or invest the clients’ money into Jupiter's financial products. Now, before, during, and even after the investment there, there are many considerations in the process. You know it's a very big responsibility and a very serious one.

00:06:13 Speaker 2

But fundamentally, there are two main responsibilities that we as asset managers have towards our clients. You know because it's their money.

00:06:21 Speaker 2

Number one is that we need to grow the longer term value.

00:06:26 Speaker 2

Of their money. And secondly, we need to manage and mitigate the risk of doing so in both these pillars you see that you know when you say that you want to grow your clients’ investments, we're investing money in real businesses.

00:06:42 Speaker 2

And we are managing the risk of investing in those very real businesses, right and climate, that is a very material risk of how businesses perform or how businesses can operate today. And a lot of my role within this, you know, within this flow comes under integrating the climate considerations.

00:07:08 Speaker 2

And like just to just to quickly clarify, you know there's managing risk, but then there's also we have certain very specific portfolio, or you know products and.

00:07:16 Speaker 2

Products which are focused on investing in companies that drive climate solutions, you know, so technological solutions. So, it's different products with different or and different offerings for different purposes. But it's a combination of the risk and the solution aspect within this entire gamut.

00:07:33 Speaker 1

OK, that's one aspect I didn't really think about, so it's useful to know I was purely thinking about the investment side, where does that money go to. But then thinking about the risks, it's not just a financial risk.

00:07:47 Speaker 1

It's interesting. And they've mentioned about your clients, and I don't you obviously don't need to go into the specifics here, but what kind of whose money are you working with? We're talking about individuals or businesses or governments or and where does it generally go? I mean that's a big question as well.

00:08:08 Speaker 2

So, when we say the clients, we are talking about massive institutional investors. We're also talking about retail investors. You know, some of the financial products are listed or are available for you and I to just go and put some of our money into it, right? So individuals can access a lot of the financial products as well, pension funds are also, you know, very big institutional investors in the world of asset management typically. And where does that money go? I mean essentially the trail is.

00:08:42 Speaker 2

Large investors or individual investors.

00:08:45 Speaker 2

And you know.

00:08:46 Speaker 2

Possibly even governments or pension funds. And like you know, are not being specific to who Jupiter's clients are, but that's the asset management world, these are all people with huge pools of money managing it for someone else and trusting us as investment asset, you know, investment.

00:09:02 Speaker 2

Experts to guide them on how to invest this money and it goes into these financial products. So essentially that.

00:09:10 Speaker 2

Is, you know.

00:09:11 Speaker 2

I mean, I'm not sure how to really.

00:09:13 Speaker 2

Say that but.

00:09:14 Speaker 2

It's sitting in that financial product, you know, for us to manage and for clients to say how much risk or how much, what, what they expect out of that money. But it sits in that one product essentially and grows all the time but that money.

00:09:31 Speaker 2

You know, just is to.

00:09:32 Speaker 2

To clarify, I guess the main question that you're asking is.

00:09:38 Speaker 2

We typically invest in what is the secondary market and what I mean by secondary market is the Stock Exchange. So essentially companies like.

00:09:47 Speaker 2

But like London Stock Exchange is where lots of you know, a lot of the companies in in the UK would primarily list, right? So, if you want to invest in Tesco, the shareholder in Tesco or let's say if you want to invest in you know, in Sainsburys so anything that is.

00:10:07 Speaker 2

Retail that is a company that's listed on the Stock Exchange is available or can be available as a part of the product portfolio. That makes sense. So yeah, that's the that's the chain.

00:10:18 Speaker 1

OK. And which part of the chain or the decision making and so on falls on your shoulders, in your rollers and the ESG advisor?

00:10:29 Speaker 2

I worked very, very closely with our investment experts. The final decision on where the money gets allocated or how the investment portfolio gets constructed, you know, so which asset classes which companies would form part of that, rests and sits with the investment managers.

00:10:53 Speaker 2

We consider it as a very big strength that we're very investment manger led and we trust their expertise. We trust them to make the right decisions for their clients.

00:11:03 Speaker 2

And I sit and work.

00:11:04 Speaker 2

Very closely with them informing their investment.

00:11:08 Speaker 2

Pieces you know pre, during and maybe pulse investment. So, it's very much in the research segment of giving the investment teams

00:11:19 Speaker 2

The relevant information that they would need to factor in when they're managing and monitoring their portfolios.

00:11:29 Speaker 1

So, it would be something along the lines of your research would suggest what this investment would mean for climate risk and the the investment you're making into climate and environmental technology that level of research?

00:11:48 Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, it could be one of the many factors that they would take into account, you know, but yes, that's the that's the point at which I guess I would most closely be informing and working with the investment teams and they're various other things that, you know, I probably do. But in the line of.

00:12:06 Speaker 2

Where the money is coming from, where the money is going and what's happening in the process, I would sit in that transition of the money is going to go somewhere and what do we need to go in the information chain?

00:12:19 Speaker 1

Yeah, I don't think we'd be able to fit all of your particular roles into one podcast. We'd have to spread it out, I think, but really good to know. Thank you for that. I saw a term used by yourself. And you said you're passionate about it, which is net zero financed emissions and I wondered what that was, how it fitted into your work and where? Why are you so passionate about?

00:12:44 Speaker 2

So there there's actually three questions that you've asked on that one is 1 is what is net zero financed emissions and why am I passionate about it? Sorry. Well, two questions, but I'm counting net zero and finance emissions as two questions separately. Let me first just like, maybe start with the technical term, net zero emissions and then I can come back to, you know, why do I care about it, right.

00:13:10 Speaker 2

So let me know if this is too much detail and I'm happy to, you know, draw back on the volume, but I guess just starting with like the fundamentals, what is net zero right.

00:13:24 Speaker 2

In simple terms. You know whatever activity we do any and when I say we I mean everybody and anybody individually right businesses, corporations, governments, anyone.

00:13:35 Speaker 2

There is a certain amount of greenhouse gas emissions that are therefore being produced, and they're being emitted globally. That's a keyword there.

00:13:45 Speaker 2

And then there is the balance of OK how much is going into the atmosphere and how much is?

00:13:50 Speaker 2

Being removed from.

00:13:51 Speaker 2

The atmosphere and that balance is what you know the net zero turn really takes, which is as long as what's going into the atmosphere is also being removed from it.

00:14:01 Speaker 2

That's the sweet spot. We want to get to within certain and then you know, within a lot of certain technical climate footprint limits.

00:14:09 Speaker 2

This can be achieved by various methods, OK and finance is one of the big leverage that is needed anyway, irrespective of what method you choose to put your time and energy and money in.

00:14:22 Speaker 2

Let's come to the second part of it. Right, which is emissions, and I've explained what Net zero is and then finance emissions. So, I mean very crudely and very, very technically you like in, in the greenhouse gas for gold, there is a specific category which is gold is category 15 investments, OK and.

00:14:40 Speaker 2

That is what we reference as finance emissions. It's the emissions coming from the finance activities. So, in case of our investment portfolio, it's the emissions or our invested share of the emissions from the companies that we invest in. And so therefore, combining these two terms right Net Zero Finance Emissions.

00:15:00 Speaker 2

What we're really saying is we want our investment portfolio companies to decarbonize or to reduce their carbon footprint over a period of time to get to a point where what they're putting into the atmosphere is equal to what they're taking out of the atmosphere, if that makes sense. So super technical but now.

00:15:18 Speaker 2

That is what I do on a regular basis. As you can imagine, when we when we put these terms together in very simple words, you'll suddenly realise that getting that machine working is a lot of bottom-up enthusiasm and a lot of bottom up, you know, time commitment, investment that's needed, which is.

00:15:38 Speaker 2

Let's understand what the emissions of our companies even are. Let's try and understand, you know, therefore, what does that mean for us in our investor portfolio? Let's understand what can we actually do about it, right? What is it that we can control and what is it that we cannot control? And therefore, where do we go from there?

00:15:55 Speaker 2

So why am I, you know, passionate about it? I guess I could go all the way to the start.

00:16:02 Speaker 2

You know, I genuinely believe that climate risk is if not the biggest defy, one of the biggest challenges of the 21st century, and we all have a part to play in it.

00:16:18 Speaker 2

The reason why I chose what I do is because I think my generation and the generations after this, you know or our generation and generations after this are the ones that are already seeing the impacts of the previous generations. You know in emissions. And therefore, I guess that's what. That's why I wake up every day. That's probably why I love to work in the sector and that's where the passion is coming from for me.

00:16:45

Is there an element of influence that comes into this because you are an asset management company. As I say you who you work for and you have a portfolio of various portfolios for investments and that kind of thing.

00:17:00 Speaker 1

If there are changes in the way that your clients are wanting to invest does that generally do you feel has a an influence on things like lowering your the those in your portfolio investment areas where the money is going to, is there an influence for them to lower their or take steps to lower their emissions and that kind of thing? How it works or not so much?

00:17:28 Speaker 2

That would be one of the main things, but I mean it's just to rephrase and ensure that I understand your question correctly. Is what you're saying Does the clients objective feed into the investment decisions that we make? Is that what you're suggesting?

00:17:45 Speaker 1

Yeah, and. And as the investment body do you, are you able to assert some influence on a where that money goes and B what those companies are doing within where that money is going to?

00:17:56 Speaker 2

Yeah. So, I mean, short answer to both the questions would be yes, you know, but it's not as finery as saying this is what the client tells us to do. And then that's what's done. You know there is, there is a thread of we understand what their expectations are, and our job is to meet their expectations. But our job is also to ensure that it aligns with what's the fundamental investment strategy.

00:18:19 Speaker 2

Is, so, you know, long story short, yes, there are many factors that go into this decision pillar of which company do we finally allocate and what proportion would we allocate into the portfolio and amongst the many considerations, the goal. The goal of the client is probably the most important when advising them. Whether you know to be invested a specific portfolio. But for an investment manager the crux of what the strategy entails and what the strategy is trying to do is what's most important and yes Climate is a, you know is a consideration that's taken to varying degree and different strategies.

00:18:59 Speaker 1

Yeah. And as a Chartered Environmentalist, I guess any kind of leverage to improve where and when it goes to it in terms of improving it from a climate perspective, must be a big win for you, I suppose.

00:19:12 Speaker 2

It is. I think if I just like, take it to a slight tangent, right, like we invest in, we like if I just park that capital allocation, it's probably the biggest thing that we can do. You know ultimately.

00:19:27 Speaker 2

There are too much bigger leverages that we you know that that we take on in the role as asset managers. The first is by being investors in company we get a seat at the table.

00:19:42 Speaker 2

To say what we think is working well or what we what we think isn't working well.

00:19:48 Speaker 2

And that's called active stewardship, you know, active engagement by engaging with these very companies and I'm talking engagements at the very top, you know with the likes of their, with the likes of their boards, with the likes of their executive committees.

00:20:01 Speaker 2

We say that look, this is what we expect of you. This is what we see. This is the targets and commitments that we've set for our investment portfolios, and we want that to be, you know, reflected in how the company is moving.

00:20:13 Speaker 2

I think that's a very, very powerful tool that we have and much bigger and at a much bigger seat.

00:20:21 Speaker 2

Where you can tell them and see the longer term. You know, or even shorten medium term transition now, I guess that's why I'm saying change.

00:20:31 Speaker 2

In the companies.

00:20:32 Speaker 2

That in in in from a financial sector perspective considering.

00:20:35 Speaker 2

We're investing in these.

00:20:38 Speaker 2

Change happens when the topmost leadership is committed to change something, right, and to be able to influence that change is a very powerful tool. A second tool that we have, as you know, active managers of investment portfolios is being able to vote at these companies’ Annual general meetings where we are shareholders now in some cases, we might be big shareholders and some cases where we not be big shareholders. But we take this element of active stewardship which is engagement and wanting to express what we want out of these companies very seriously and that's a that's a very big part.

00:21:20 Speaker 2

Where you know my role, or my teams are all that sits within the ESG research and integration and the stewardship team comes in when we work with the investment teams. That's our way to voice the change we want to see beyond just pure capital allocation.

00:21:37 Speaker 1

This is all fascinating to know.

00:21:39 Speaker 1

I like it. Good. And what you just said there at the end there in terms of having a seat at the table, that's something we're very keen on, more chartered environmentalists specifically because of who we are working at those levels and being able to influence at those levels to make decisions that can have a huge influence on where things like money goes and all of us sort of different things that come with managing a business.

00:22:04 Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean that just ties back to the previous question, right? He said do you feel like, you know what? What makes you passionate about it? Right. It's that underlying motivation that, you know, not only am I doing something that is research, understanding and due diligence, but actually I can engage with these companies, and I can play a strategic part in how these companies, you know, drive their own climate transition journey. And I think that's a very powerful motivation to, you know, wake up with and work towards.

00:22:35 Speaker 1

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds great. And now let's try and move this across into what other people can do so we've got various people listen to the podcasts, and let's start with environmental professionals. They are so broad in terms of what they do. But let's kind of think of them as generalists for now.

00:22:55 Speaker 1

How can they leverage their finance within their organisations if they have influence in that way to support net zero goals. How could they work with their finance? That they have their assets and without it being a Jupiter pitch?

00:23:13 Speaker 2

So, I mean I know that this podcast is predominantly listened to by environmental professionals probably members or prospective members as well. But I think I genuinely think that there are few ways in which fundamentally, any individual, irrespective of whether they're an environmental professional or not, can support climate transition and can leverage finance. The first would be in your role at your organisation.

00:23:43 Speaker 2

You know, if you are a medium to large cap or you know to like a large cap company that it likely to have some very strategic, you know, corporate strategy teams, they you know there are a lot of top-down execution of you know how to do resource allocation. I think you can influence what those strategic corporate investments should be in the company, right? So, can you identify ways to drive resource efficiency improvements, minimise the waste that your own company your own business is having, right? Be creative, be innovative propose solutions to minimise energy use.

00:24:20 Speaker 2

And I guess more importantly on a corporate level, think about carbon emissions as a KPI with the balance. When you think about the cost of doing business, you know, and I think that's something anybody irrespective of whether or not there are environmental professional, but a little bit of understanding can do and leave and the execution to, you know to the environmental specialists in that business.

00:24:45 Speaker 2

On the second side is just finance and I get it. I work in the financial, you know, services industry where we work with big institutional money, but there is there is a there is a direction to this institutional portfolio that we all have which is how we choose to invest our pensions, right. And when you think about it, pensions are a very, very important chunk of an individual's wealth. This is something that you or I are in control of, just to put some context, you know, to the numbers like.

00:25:16 Speaker 2

I think also read the UK pensions industry, for instance, is worth £1.3 trillion. That's your money. That's my money. That's everybody's money, right. So, there is the power in taking decision and decisive action on how you choose to allocate your personal pension and some of this money, if not all, and let me be very clear, I'm not really making any financial advice over here.

00:25:41 Speaker 2

But you know you can choose to allocate a proportion of this money the same way as you know I would be advising in-house in my role to solve the climate change problem or choose to invest your and choose to put the money in those places, either to solve or not put in those places where you think you know these are these are climate damages. They they're the ones that are destroying the future of my pension. So, I think this these are two leverages that everyone has in their respective roles and lives as a professional.

00:26:11 Speaker 1

Yeah. Whether you work for a big company or yourself, whether you just think about personal finance there are choices to be made. Good to know. Good to know.

00:26:21 Speaker 1

Right. So, let's talk about your career and your current job a bit more. What skills and qualifications or experience did you need for the job that you have now? You said you started in civil engineering, but you've changed slightly with your career path.

00:26:38 Speaker 2

So, I can give you my journey, but let me also caveat to the very start that that doesn't have to be the journey someone takes to be an environmental professional or you know to enter.

00:26:48 Speaker 2

Assuming, there are two parts which is, you know, do you want to be the brand to serve the sector or the infrastructure sector where I was previously to my journey very quickly is that I studied civil engineering. I did a bachelor’s in civil engineering with a major in environmental engineering and I studied and I grew up in India.

00:27:06 Speaker 2

I moved to the UK to pursue a master’s in environmental change and management that was at the University of Oxford back in 2014. Feels like a long time ago now and I think it was the combination of, you know, these five years of degree that set me up to work.

00:27:26 Speaker 2

You know and with all of the technical skills or the technical capabilities I needed to transition and start working into the construction and the infrastructure sector. So, I've worked in the construction infrastructure sector for about 7 years in various roles. But my last role before transitioning to the financial services.

00:27:45 Speaker 2

Was at, Atkins, where I was working as a, you know, senior sustainability consultant within their environmental practise and I think that was like that experience of seven years of being into the core industry, setting me up really strongly to understand the real world application of the theoretical concepts? What does it mean to have a climate resilient City what does it really mean when you're thinking about in, you know, infrastructure life cycles, like airports or highways, anywhere from 25 years to 125 years, right? How do you think about these risks that are going to come so far in the future against the backdrop of ever-changing weather patterns?

00:28:32 Speaker 2

Roughly 2 years ago is when I transitioned into the financial services industry, and I work as a climate investment. You know, climate specialist within the investment management world. And I guess the key threat or interest to most people is how did that transition happen, which I'm more than happy to, you know, go into further detail, but you answer.

00:28:55 Speaker 2

Like what? What are the skills that you really need, right?

00:28:57 Speaker 2

I wouldn't say having a STEM degree is crucial. You know, a lot of people working in the financial services sector, probably not people from stand backgrounds. However, in the engineering and infrastructure sector, a lot of people were from a stem background. But you know, you can still be from pure sciences or in ecology or depending on depending on what you are interested in doing.

00:29:20 Speaker 2

But I guess having a fundamental educational basic that gears you and equips you with the right set of technical skills is absolutely crucial. But another thing is, you know, during the journey, I think 3 components and they we call them soft skills, but they're absolutely crucial is.

00:29:41 Speaker 2

Number one, I think it's just having that hunger for learning, you know, to be an in my mental professional. So much changes, it's so dynamic that you've got to be on top of the changing regulations on top of the changing policy on top of understanding what the challenges are, what new information is out there. So that hunger for learning. And to me it comes in different ways, right.

00:30:03 Speaker 2

You can either sign up and work towards being a Chartered Environmentalist, or you know you could sign up for other courses. But let's say I took the Chartered Environmentalist route at that point in 2020. But then so on and so forth. You know, I did another certification Climate Risk, which was called the sustainability and Climate Risk certification to gear my financial improve, my financial understanding.

00:30:25 Speaker 2

As well on and I guess it's having that hunger for learning combined with just finding innovative opportunities where you can work. These would be like you know 3-3 key advisors to anyone looking for caring environmentals.

00:30:41 Speaker 1

Good to know, so I'm right in saying that you achieved your choice environmental registration when you work for Atkins.

00:30:49 Speaker 1

OK. That we know that that chartered environmental registration is seen very highly within the consultancy world. And then you transition to the finance world, how well is it perceived or known in the finance world? And I'd be surprised if it's particularly well known.

00:31:09 Speaker 2

So, you're absolutely right. You know, while in the infrastructure construction and consulting, design, engineering world, Chartership is quite well-known and it's almost, you know, you don't even need to say anything when you're Chartered Environmentalist, right? You get that natural external recognition that I am a leader in what I'm doing, and I'm geared to move further up and lead projects.

00:31:35 Speaker 2

It's not a very well recognised uh, you know, designation in the world of uh, you know, finance.

00:31:44 Speaker 2

Having said that, there are very few environmental professionals in the world of finance. Unlike the engineering infrastructure sector to begin with. So, it's probably changing with time. So Chartership is very well recognised because the financial world it's quite common for a lot of professionals to have their CFA, which is the chartered financial analyst designation but during when I was transitioning actually nobody within my immediate team knew what a Chartered Environmentalist is, but everybody knew what a Chartership is, right and a recognised UK Chartership is still looked at highly in terms of your technical capability. So, I think  it's still valuable.

00:32:33 Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah, it's good to know. And do you feel like so you're one of not many that has it in the financial well we do know of us around but they're few and far between in the moment. Do you feel like that allows you to stand out a little bit more?

00:32:47 Speaker 2

I don't know. Maybe it helps with the start or maybe it helps when somebody's looking up my profile and seeing what my career journey is. But it certainly doesn't matter on a day-to-day basis in the financial world if that makes sense. Having said that, I think on the environmental forums or you know a lot of work that we do is.

00:33:13 Speaker 2

While there's a financial industry, there is also a huge aspect of bringing our stakeholders together, right. So, you know, we would turn up and actively be the financial lens to environmental policy or you know, to similar networking event I think at that point you know it's when you blends the different experts from different fields it does it like the designation of a Chartered professional does stand out.

00:33:47 Speaker 1

It's good to know that cross disciplinary working is something we strive for Society for the Environment, so it sounds good that it works in that way.

00:33:55 Speaker 1

Now this might be a simple question, but it might be complex answer. What are the main challenges that you find in your job?

00:34:00 Speaker 2

I think there are three main challenges, and I will be very specific to only answer what they mean in my job not, you know, more broadly.

00:34:10 Speaker 2

I think the first is just access and availability of consistent reliable data that can be used in, you know in guiding well in.

00:34:23 Speaker 2

I don't want to use the word guiding, but in being able to do the investment research thesis, it's not consistent. You know, the world of climate analysis. It's very inconsistent depending on which region you're looking at or which country you know, or which demography you are invested in, or which sector you are working toward.

00:34:50 Speaker 2

So, I think that's a very major challenge. The second key challenge because of the and I think some of it seeps off the fact that there's a lack of reliable, consistent data and it is improving. But you know we're not anywhere near having the solutions we need.

00:35:05 Speaker 2

It's green washing because if you can't, if you can't explain what has been done and why it has been done in a way that's consistently well understood everywhere, then there is a huge risk. So, I would say that's a big challenge in terms of ensuring that things are documented well, you know the consistency of the thought process is well understood and these are longer term investments that we are making, right. So, at every stage we have to think like the regulator, which is, if the regulator asks me tell me why you said this was a good proposition. Do I have everything that's needed, like the risk of greenwashing is a very big challenge and having the answer because we're doing all the right things or we're trying to.

00:35:49 Speaker 2

At least, but are we also still documenting them correctly now? And the third thing I would say is just the concept of thinking about climate. While it has been happening inherently in business evaluations for the investment management, it hasn't been happening, nobody has thought about it to go. Oh, OK, this is what I mean when I say climate integration, right. So that's a very big cultural shift in the investment world, where it's a separate subject. It's a separate topic that needs attention. So I would say these are the three key challenges in my day-to-day role.

00:36:26 Speaker 2

But they're also what make it you know, very exciting at the same time because solving those challenges is half the fun.

00:36:34 Speaker 1

I was just thinking, I wonder because my next question is about what's the favourite part of your job and I wondered whether one of those challenges might be featured in there. But what? What would be the favourite part of your job?

00:36:44 Speaker 2

And I think the absolute favourite part of my job really is. The two steps like and one leads feeds it to the other which is fundamental bottom-up company ESG analysis and that's a lots of reading that's a lot of finding information that's a lot of looking for information that isn't written down, but maybe implicitly applies. So, I think it's, it's that academic brain as soon as that gets triggered, and it gets triggered quite a lot. In my role. I think that's the bit I really enjoy.

00:37:18 Speaker 2

The second thought, that's absolutely fun for me personally is then going and using that research to work with the investment teams and engage how focused and targeted engagement with our investing companies to say by the way can you elaborate on, you know, let's say a specific point or we would like to see some of these changes on the topic of climate.

00:37:44 Speaker 2

I think it's when you know it's still early days for me to successfully say that you know I've done the research and I have engaged with the company and hey, by the way, the big changes happen because you know 20 months is a relatively short cycle for a company to change the top down level, but it's when I can add that third layer very concretely and have many examples of saying I think that's when I would say, you know, I've completed the full cycle of the favourite box at my job.

00:38:12 Speaker 1

Well, one of your favourite parts of your job is very similar to mine, so have it being an engagement manager. That engagement can have of the various different stakeholders that you work with can be a lot of fun sometimes and challenging as well. Sometimes you know, you know, I like to like you mentioned that your academic brain gets switched on during some of that. I wondered whether you're engineering side of your brain might do as well, which might be seen as relatively similar I suppose but.

00:38:39 Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah, a lot of work on a day-to-day basis. I think engineering really put me quite strongly to do the job that I do today, which is you know that technical mindset, that analytical mindset, looking for information, looking for data, being very data driven. You know, being very dispassionate about the problem you're solving because that helps you zoom out and look at the problem.

00:39:04 Speaker 2

And finding the problem that actually needs solving that and the one that you want to solve because it's exciting to you. Critical analysis to a great degree, I think all of these are skills that you know my engineering degree, but then the application of that engineering degree with the environmental management skills over a period of seven years have been instilled, they're always second nature and I think that's a very, very transferable skill to any industry, but definitely very transferable and important in the financial services industry.

00:39:37 Speaker 1

Now we've mentioned a few times that you've gained your Chartered Environmentalist in 2020. What does being a Chartered Environmentalist mean to you?

00:39:45

So I actually gained it in 2020 in the first lock down. So that's when I was sitting on my desk and working and preparing to as my child to share. And I personally remember very fondly. But since then, I think it's meant two things for me.

00:40:03 Speaker 2

While I was still working at Atkins in the infrastructure sector, as you know, as I've already said, it was an instant external recognition that I was already leading, and you know the Chartership helped. But I think since then the more important outcome for me has been that I've been able to find and connect with likeminded but also of very diverse set up in my mental professionals when we say environmental professional it really doesn't mean one thing right. It means many things in many sectors. You could be working in the corporate segment as a corporate sustainability manager. You could be an ecologist, or you know you could be a sustainability expert working on the design project, the infrastructure segment. You could be a climate finance professional like me, you know, moving from infrastructure. So, I think that pool of likeminded chartered professionals and fellow Members that I've since been able to identify, recognise, connect to it. That's been the most valuable to me ultimately.

00:41:10 Speaker 1

Yeah, it's good to know. Something we are very keen on at the Society for the Environment now is to develop new ways in which we can bring Chartered Environmentalists, REvnPs and REnvTechs together more to, for a start for networking possibilities, but also to make more of a difference in terms of their work and you know learning and knowledge sharing and that kind of thing. So hopefully we can do that to support one of the things that you find as a as a really real positive. So it's really good to know.

00:41:36 Speaker 1

Now, would you? What would you say to all people thinking about a career in the environment? Again, quite broad, but.

00:41:44 Speaker 2

That is quite a good question and a very broad question and.

00:41:48 Speaker 2

I think the first thing for me would be that to be a good environmental professional, irrespective of which segment of the profession you go in. Genuinely having a passion for the role and for the progression of the role that you're working in is quite crucial.

00:42:07 Speaker 2

I think the second thing that I would say considering they're so diverse and there is no one definition of what an environmental career is, it's important to, you know as early as possible. I mean I became a grad IEMA.

00:42:19 Speaker 2

Much before I actually achieved my chartership right. So, I guess to get onto platforms and to get on to networking connection groups such as IEMA  become members in some form to start understanding and you know people who are somewhere.

00:42:35 Speaker 2

I mean 2-3 years all the way to maybe 10-15 years senior to you in that career will be able to give you a huge set of information on what are the different career paths. And actually, I would then say that thirdly is to make sure that you know that that you know you have a lot of curiosity, but you also actually act on that curiosity on a regular basis. It's great to have good ideas and to think about things you can do on a project, but to not be able to implement them doesn't really take you.

00:43:08 Speaker 2

Anywhere and again, if you'll probably see me touching a lot more on the softer skills and rather than the hard, you know, degree level skills, because I genuinely think that, you know, different degrees that still get you to being an environmental professional very successfully and there is no one way of getting there. You could take The Apprentice route, you could take the bachelor’s only route, you could be a stem.

00:43:29 Speaker 2

You know student or you could be a pure scientist student. You could also be coming from an economics background, you know, and combine that with a major in environmental sciences to be, you know, to be in to, to be a climate focused economist. So there are various routes ultimately, but finding the people that feel like this is what I could want to do if the most important thing that I would advise.

00:43:50 Speaker 1

And has plenty of rolls out there. I like mention of the soft skills because you mentioned one of your favourite parts of your job is the engagement side. Obviously, you need that underpinning the technical knowledge to be able to get to that stage, but from that stage beyond its engagement, its influence, its leadership and so on, which is which is, which is not the fundamental parts of being technically knowledgeable in in the environment world that you're in, it's beyond that it's going a bit further, which is reflected in the Chartered Environmentalist registration. Yeah. Now let's look to the future. What's next for you?

00:44:28 Speaker 2

How far in the future are you talking?

00:44:32 Speaker 1

how far would you like to look how, let's say 2024, but then also 2040?

00:44:42 Speaker 2

Well, OK. And I'm 2040 seems very far right. But most of our climate goals are probably going to start bearing fruits in between 2030 and 2040. This is decade of action, and you know the next decade is going to be the decade of seeing the outputs and the result.

00:44:59 Speaker 2

Let me start with like immediate future right. What does it look like in terms of projects in terms of aspirations?

00:45:07 Speaker 2

I mean my ambition currently really is we're in, you know, year 3 of what is probably a 30 year journey of solving climate problems, which means that the goal that I'm working towards in my current role is how do I scale valuable climate risk integration into the investment dynamic into the investment world. And you know what I mean is how do I identify the set of targeted, focused subjects that are going to take a company from point A in their current transition journey to point B.

00:45:53 Speaker 2

This means various things, and you know for the immediate, let's say between zero to 12 months right now for me that means working towards implementing what is Jupiter’s own climate strategy. You know, we've got our 2025 and 2030 commitments on climate that we've made public actually, then improving disclosures for you know for our clients.

00:46:14 Speaker 2

But also, for other businesses or for other asset managers or for the industry in general, right? So you know, knowing, knowing and explaining that by the way, here's the industry recognised framework such as the T CFD that you know we are signatories also. And here's the disclosures. So, I think a lot of my 12 month work is going to be around improving the data disclosures improving the holistic investment decisions that get made because of consistent data and continue and continually identify the targeted and focused invest, you know, investment engagements that I want to have with the top most levels to drive changes. Medium term I would say you know I'd probably like 2040 feels too far from a career perspective if somebody asked me 10 years ago what I'd be doing today I probably would not have said that I would be an asset management as a climate finance expert but I think I definitely see myself as a as a leading industry recognised as climate investment expert, but also a generalist industry expert, because climate doesn't sit in isolation. It's one of the plugs into the bigger, you know, into the bigger investment thesis. So, I think I've seen myself growing as a leader.

00:47:30 Speaker 2

With within the next three to five years. But you know, solving these problems and seeing the companies make a real difference.

00:47:38 Speaker 1

Well, with your passion and knowledge, I can certainly see that happening. And please do stay in touch with the Society of the Environment because we'd love to hear about that journey as it unfolds now in terms that we have a last question, we always have our one question we ask right at the end if you were able to influence world leaders for a day. What would you focus on what would you do?

00:48:01 Speaker 2

That's a very that's a very dreamy question, I think.

00:48:06 Speaker 2

I mean, while my answer probably doesn't have to be in lime and focused, I think climate is a bit that I'm genuinely most passionate about and I think we need world leaders who come together to solve.

00:48:16 Speaker 2

So, you know, I'd probably make the biggest lead world leaders back proportion of their economy size sit in one room and sign a document that says here's how much money I'm committing to the climate goals that you know my country has already committed to do because we see a lot of goals, but we don't necessarily see the investment that comes with it, so I'd make them sign that if I would.

00:48:39 Speaker 1

OK, specific to do with climate net zero.

00:48:43 Speaker 2

Yeah. And investment.

00:48:44 Speaker 1

And investment. Oh, how very on brand. Very good. Excellent. Well, thank you very much for joining us today Divya. Really nice to speak with you, it's opened my mind to the world of sustainable finance and investments and so on. So, thank you very much, if you want to follow in Divya's footsteps by becoming a chartered environmentalist and showcasing your environmental knowledge, then please check out the IEMA website which is IEMA dot net, and we'll put the link directly to the chartered Environmentalist page in the podcast description. So just get up that click. IEMA was just one of the ways you could become a Chartered Environmentalist, and it's just the way that Divya went the route that Divya went down. So, you'll be following her footsteps in that way. Next month is December so we're going to be taking a break from EnvCast and some would say that's well earned some might not, but if you're still listening, that's the main thing to not miss out on the first episode in 2024. Please subscribe to our podcast in the usual way and we shall see you then.